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Talk:Weapons
/Archive 1/ Weapons Split i think we should split them by catagories like Assault rifle, hunting rifle, sniper rifle, Semi auto-shotguns. i must warn though this may create more of the inventing supernatural qualities to ordinary things problem as separatin the pages so will beg to make them more descriptive like having multiple kinds of assault rifles under the assault rifle page, basicly what im scared of is something like "the AK 47 is a sleek super gun that gives it's user the ability to make a head shot everytime they scream the phrase down with capitolism, oh and it cleams itself." thats the only thing i'm worried about, i think it should still look like something from wikipedia though with the zombies. :Ok. Having said that, here is my idea for the split. I know some work has been done on this already, and I don't mean to step on toes, but I found the old way counter-intuitive and confusing. Here's my plan. :Blue = Done :Firearms: Will have a good deal of general firearms info and safety guidelines, a line or two for each major firearm group (below) gun, maybe a few lines on the evolution of firearms since their inception, and then links back to weapons, and each of the major firearms groups page. :Rifles: A major group page. :Handguns: A major group page. :* links to Best handguns for killing zombies, because it's so darn long. :Shotguns: A major group page. :Machine Guns: A major group page. :Sub-Machine Guns: A major group page. :List of Firearms: Pages on individual firearms are fine. If the gun is uncommon, the article better be top notch intel, otherwise it may be deleted. We don't want to be a gun wiki, but we all know we love reading the details when they are accurate, so there should be leniency here. Anyway, This is a list page for those individual articles. :When all of the above are done for firearms, that section should be merged/moved off of the weapons page, and all links to new pages should replace it. :Melee Weapons: While Firearms groups get their own pages, a "Slashing Melee Weapons" page would be overkill in a way that a "Sub Machine Gun" page just isn't. So in these sections below, it would work pretty much like that section has always worked within the weapons page. :* bashing/crushing weapons :* slashing weapons :* stabbing weapons :* miscellaneous melee weapons :List of melee weapons: Let's not go melee crazy here. We don't need 7 pages for 7 types of Japanese blade. This is not the place to emphasis rare/exotic weapons. Pages for prominent/common types of weapons only. Fire Axe is fine. Broadsword is fine. Gladius is too specific, just mention it in Broadsword. Spear is fine. Polearms... I'm on the fence about (as far as a Polearm page). :In short, there will be fewer individual melee weapon pages than firearm pages. :When all of the above are done for melee weapons, that section should be merged/moved off of the weapons page, and all links to new pages should replace it. :Improvised Weapons (in progress) :List of improvised weapons: This will be an extremely select list of improvised weapons/traps/etc. I would say only the best of the best in terms of the overall idea, as well as the quality of the article. :When all of the above are done for improvised weapons, that section should be merged/moved off of the weapons page, and all links to new pages should replace it. :Miscellaneous Weapons: There will be only short descriptions for these, and no individual pages. :* thrown weapons, catapults, bow and arrow, etc :* flechettes :* fictious laser weapons : — [[User:Philodox|'<<— ''Philodox —>>']] talk 16:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC) Lobos Lobotimzers were mentioned as weaponry of great importance of World War Z and I think they should be added. I already did. -DJDavis Gun Images Attention to whoever runs this page or site, I understand they're good gun images, but any Images that were taken by MoviePropMaster2008 on IMFDB need to be taken off. I am a moderator on IMFDB, and I have to tell you guys that any image taken by MoviePropMaster2008 was intended be used by IMFDB only. We don't mean to be greedy, but those images have his copyright on them, if you want to try to ask for MPM2008's permission, go here http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/User:MoviePropMaster2008. Thanks. Weapons Split If we do Split the weapons page it shouldn't be to make it more complex, it should be so as to go in to deeper discussion, however the major flaw in this is that it could essentially create 5-15 pages laking adhearance to the zombie survival subject. how ever the best thing to do is to merge all ranged weapons then seperate them, into two catagories large guns around the size of a M-16 and small guns around the size of luger. the inheirent weaknesses are the guns inbetween. this can be solved by a single question. Can it be wielded in on hand effectively? larger weapons like RPG's and Flamethrowers count as rifle because they are based on them. ballista and cannons are artillary and thus should be counted as it's own catagory. Melee should stay the way i put it before everyone fucked with it. how the weapons are made or if they arent ment to be used as weapons doesn't matter, TWO CATAGORIES BLUNT and SLASHING OR PIERCING. For all you slower folks baseball bat is blunt not misc, not improvised, BLUNT. the creation of a new section called Special weapons as they fit into no other catagory. this catagory works due to most being of limited usefulness against the undead. molotovs, slings, smoke grenades count as Special Weapons. this catagory would include mobile traps like bear traps, Explosives thrown or set, factory made or improvised. --Gwyllgi 17:39, February 4, 2011 (UTC) being self righteous and snobby about firearms. this page consists exclusively of tropes and tacticool phantasies. i could edit the page and painstakingly correct ever overgeneralization and painful misconception, or i could go on the talk page and self righteously correct just a few. *availability of pistols. the article sez "One could find hundreds or even thousands of handguns by just going into an abandoned police station." and what is i don't even. On a good day with no zombies, there might be a dozen handguns and assorted long firearms in supply. The writer was hopefully trolling, but it seems to be a common misconception that guns are easy to find or steal. *availability of automatic firearms. For all intensive purposes, they do not exist. And if, by quantum non-zero probability, there is a fully automatic firearm somewhere, the owner will have it and be ready to kill anyone who tries to take it. He (or she) will make you pry it from dead hands. *range of a bolt action rifle. It is very common knowledge that bolt actions are the most accurate type, but it has been greatly overstated. What experts mean by by 'greater accuracy' is that the most accurate bolt actions are more accurate than the average semiautomatic at ranges that are simply irresponsible with limited ammunition. At the ranges that potential accuracy begins to matter, it stops mattering because practically nobody can shoot well enough to justify the risk of missing. Close, sure shots are infinitely preferable to long chancy gambles. Also, many bolt actions are corroded and worked past their normal life, and while a bolt continues to function long after an automatic would jam, accuracy is going to be cabbage. *Sniping is a verb that does not require the highly mythicized 'sniper rifle.' Sniping is simply shooting someone who does not know that you are there. It can be done with a specialized rifle, but also a pistol, shotgun, bow and arrow or spear. *spas 12. There is no such gun. just like the double barrel pump action shotgun actually, friend, you need to do your research. there is indeed a double barrel pump action. -DJDavis P.S. learn to spell please. I can't stand spelling misteaks. Some good points but I'd like to correct your final comment on SPAS-12's, they do exist but Franchi stopped making them in 2000 and they've banned from export into the US (which is, I assume, where you come from) for even longer.Zedhead81 23:20, March 10, 2011 (UTC) i meant practicaly nonexistant. yeah there are a few, i understand, but getting one is practically impossible. Besides, you can just get one of their new Franchi semi's which is better than the Spas 12 which they're still making. - Ice-T 21:11, March 19, 2011 (GMT) Actually thanks to the internet it's possible to acquire a double barrel pump action shotgun, hell take it to a whole 'nother level and remove the stock and add two bayonet plugs (one for each barrel). Infact i'd go so far as to say that the few Leet wannabees that do survive will probably attempt to make one in the first 6 months, even funnier when they do so with dragon's breath. --Gwyllgi 01:48, October 9, 2011 (UTC) Great! I've got the guns, what now? It seems weapons have got more comments than any other subject, I think we ''may ''need to branch out a bit Zedhead81 18:38, April 26, 2011 (UTC) Taurus Guns The Raging Judge is great. It can fire standard 20 gauge shells! [[User:Vulkan He'Stan|'Vulkan He'Stan']](Talk) 16:55, May 12, 2011 (UTC) :True, but only for static defence; 20 guage shells are rarer than pink dog turds in a post-apocolyptic world. A great weapon to be used in conjunction with a Remmington 870 or some other 12 guage. Just make sure you get the head! 23:36, July 24, 2011 (UTC) ::Actually shotgun Shells may be the easiest ammo to make due to their simplicity. :::I guess that's true but the only time you'd ever be able to sit down and make more ammunition is when you've already cleared and created a fortress. Hardly ideal for everyday use wouldn't you say?.Zedhead81 20:33, November 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::Very true (although by fortress, I'll assume you mean any base with alot of tools, equipment, supplies, and a sizeable firearms arsenal), but if you spend a while searching through this wiki, you'll see there are plenty of articles that go past the first few weeks of survival in a zombie infestation, and up to that point where the group of survivors is rebuilding a tribe/community/city-state. :::: — [[User:Philodox|'<<— Philodox —>>']] talk 21:14, November 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::Once you have this fortress (base/tribe/community or whatever you want to call it), yes. But in the run up to this (correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the run up be the bit where the most ammunition was used) ammo would be fairly hard to come by without having stocking up an absurd ammount pre-outbreak. I honestly just think it'd be more trouble than it's worth.Zedhead81 00:10, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Cars/Trucks/Commercial Vehicles Since most people are highlighting the usefullness of projectile weapons (which are very usefull or needed in certain/most scenarios) we cannot overlook the implemtation and effectiveness of the ramming and crushing force that every motorized vehicle is capable of producing (though I would highly recommend not using a SMART car). Now granted after the initial infestation gasoline production would cease and it has a lifespan of maybe 6 months to a year. This being stated one person or a co-ordinated group of individuals could commadier a variety of heavy duty trucks/utility vehicles to crush (or at least greatly incapacitate) the zombies around their fortification. So for the first 6 months to a year a person/persons could take advantage of these powerful weapons. Even after the gas supply runs out there are many natural gas powered vehicles that can be found to continue the carnage. One can easily argue that a motorized vehicle can be used as an effective tool in dispatching the undead. Consider the following: *The undead are slow and lumbering. *They do not evade (correct me if I'm wrong). *They are attracted to loud noises(a horn is a good for that). *Cars/Trucks are fast, durable, reliable and ideal for quick escapes. Given the amount of undead you could safely deduce that: *Car vs. a few undead......car wins in almost all scenarios. *Car vs. a lot of undead.....car wins if there is ample room to navigate (say a parking lot) *Car vs. a horde of undead......not so good horde wins. Every scenario is different and this tactic cannot be used 100 percent of the time but looking at the simple fact that society is built around roads we have an excellent canvas for the mass dispatch of the undead. Suburbia gives us a greater advantage since it would not yield the numbers of undead that a large metropolis would. Give a person one clear block or a big parking lot and an enemy that is of a slow lumbering nature plus attracted to sound and that person has a canvas to to destroy hundreds or thousands of zombies before the vehicle is disabled/wrecked. Given the make and model of a vehicle plus modifications any person that can drive could dispatch the undead as easily as one with a small aresenal of weapons. Most vehicles do offer protection. You are basically surrounded by a very study shell of materials that are made to withstand a large amount of force before they fail. Cars/Trucks will most likely travel up to and beyond 250 miles on one tank of gas. Most will weigh ''at least 1500 pounds and have 80 plus horsepower. With that being said how would you wield this weapon effectively? Let's look at some common scenarios: *'Suburban streets' could be cleared of debris fairly easily by using other cars giving a very good route to drive along in timed intervals. Look at most modern suburban layouts and you will notice most will have a planned subdivision with a nice layout of streets and only two or three entry points. All one would need is a map of the area then scout the streets to make sure the route is clear of debris. After establishing a debris free path start driving a slow gas conserving pace. You basically run over all zombies. Now the naysayers will poo-poo this idea and say "This will not kill a zombie....they will just get back up cause they aren't alive." Actually they probably won't. More than likely if you run over anything human or inhuman you are going to crush bones, tear ligaments and basically re-arrange the physiology so that it cannot perform like a bi-ped much less chase, bite or do much of anything except flop around. Run this path 20 or 30 times honking the horn in intervals- to attract new undead victims. You disable the zombies on the first pass then all other passes you work on squashing the melons so to speak. Depending on the concentration of the undead you should be able to clear hundreds of zombies per every couple of rounds that are made. *'Big Parking Lots' that are so often depicted in mall scenarios are equally suffieceint to dispatch hundreds if not thousands of the undead. This would take some pre-planning but a small team with trucks could navigate and disperse small hoardes of zombies. Easily apply military tactics to protects flanks and launch attacks. Use sound and bait to thin overpowering hordes if needed. This tactic is mainly used in suburban and small urban areas, not in large cities with millions of the undead swarming around. *'Open areas' could easily be used for baiting grounds. Have some sort of attractor in the middle of a large open space and just wait for the lumbering undead to filter in. Take them out in waves as soon as the designated area is full of targets. Don't waste fuel or time by hitting one or five or ten just wait until the target area is saturated with enough undead that will inflict the most casualties then retreat to the sidelines and wait for more to infiltrate the target area. These are just a few of the numerous scenarious that can be employed. The possibilities are many and the results could be enormously effective. Imagine the destructive power of heavy costruction equipment and farming/agricultural machinery. With the vast amounts of fuel available (before it goes bad) zombies have little protection against tons of steel and horsepower. Just a thought. :Overall, I do not think the ideas conveyed in your proposal belong on the weapons page. Perhaps a passage of the vehicles page about using them as weapons, but even there, I think only a sliver of the ideas you posted here qualify. The notion has two major flaws. :* Ever since perhaps the early seventies, cars are designed to give participants in collision events (in the car and out) the greatest chances of survival, by being built with more intentionally breakable areas. Perhaps you have heard of crumple zones? This, as well as how much more plastic is used than in the heyday of the American automobile, all means that while a hit from a car will do damage to the target, eventually, the car will be so damaged, it will break down and require extensive repairs. Repairs that might be extremely difficult, even if you are an experienced auto mechanic and engineer, since cars require very particular parts to function, and auto shops regularly have to mail away for all but the most common car parts. Even snow plows require extensive maintenance, as the sudden added resistance of the snow wears down the parts under the hood extremely fast. :* Assuming you are a mechanic, and you are stocked up on all of the parts that you need, and you drive something like a 59 Chevy Impala, you will absolutely obliterate most fleshy material you collide with (aside from Solanum infected flesh, which is supernaturally absorbitant, but I'll conceed that it would probably still shatter many of the bones of the zombie). However, when it comes to killing a zombie, only a blow that destroys the skull is a true death blow. Since most zombies are taller than the hood of a car, there is little chance that being rammed will do enough damage to the skull. If Shock|bombs don't do it, a vehicle surely won't. One would only be creating "crawlers", which, while more easily ecapable, have a tendency to appear in places most other zombies wouldn't go or don't fit. In a sense, you're just giving the horde more angles of attack, and flexibilty, while making them harder to shoot from distance, since they are now crawling prone. :Another good point that would need to be included is the tendency of heavy uprught objects (such as humans, and deer) to ball up, and roll into and through the windshield when hit head on. Hundreds of people died in deer related accidents every year in the US. Many of those fatalities occur when the head is hit head-on, and crashes through the windshield, killing the people sitting in the front. :Let me know if you'd like sources for any of my statements : — [[User:Philodox|'<<— ''Philodox —>>']] talk 14:32, July 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Also bear in mind that many roads will be blocked by the vechiles of refugees attempting to escape urban areas, further more, as pointed out by Philodox, the prospect of having a still living zombie thrown into ones face is far from appealing! My personal opinion is that the fuel could be put to better use.Zedhead81 01:06, July 20, 2011 (UTC) :::I've had a bit of a change of heart on this issue, and I think heavy vehicles do deserve a mention on the weapons page, provided we stipulate that only heavy vehicles with decent engines are up to it, and they will still need considerable maintenance. ::: — [[User:Philodox|'<<— Philodox —>>']] talk 20:08, November 30, 2011 (UTC) Chemical Weapons. Recently while watching an episode of Spooks (MI-5) a main part of the plot involved VX gas. To those who don't know what this is it's a highly lethal chemical weapon developed during the Cold War, the link to zombies is that it seeps through the skin and doesn't have to be inhaled in order to enter the system, then it goes to work destroying the nervous system and preventing the cells recieving information from the brain. In humans this results in a horrific death but it got me thinking about its possible effects on zombies. From the information I have (which is somewhat limited) I have found no reason that would show immunity in the living dead. Does anyone have any information that suggests otherwise? Zedhead81 01:26, July 20, 2011 (UTC) It depends on the type of zombie you are talking about. If it's a Brooks zombie, then no, its a total waste of time. If it's Infected your talking about, then it may work but how would you get large quantities of Cold War chemical weapons? '12 Gauge 23:23, October 9, 2011 (UTC)12 Gauge''' I meant it as more of a possible Swarm killer used by the government as a last resort. More something I considered a potential problem than a weapon to be used by survivors. I mean this stuff is nasty! I'd want to get out of a hordes way if VX is getting sprayed around. Zedhead81 23:00, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Distinguishing Between "Battle-Ready" and Decorative Weapons I really like the info on this page. In the case of melee weapons, one thing I would like to suggest is to add info about the difference between decorative/prop and real weapons. There is a good chance that many swords, maces ect that you do find post-apocolypse will be decorative and not suitible for actual fighting. I think it is important because making the mistake of using a decorative/prop weapon will mostly likely prove very dangerous or even fatal. One very famous example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2EQWCpnIR8 Good info on swords: http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/battle-ready-sword.html http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/authentic-swords.html Cbriggs108 01:34, November 17, 2011 (UTC) Weapons Wikia I was doing some searching a while back, and I found a Wikia that's dedicated to weaponry. Sadly, it had been abandoned, with very few pages. Thankfully, I've been working on it, and I put in a request to adopt it. Of course, I could use some help from weapon experts, and other experts. In case anyone is interested- http://weaponry.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons_Wiki Alockwood1 22:52, December 1, 2011 (UTC) :It's a great idea, my friend. Our weapons pages are typically some of our most visited pages. Unfortunately, editors with any sort of expertise in weaponry have been lacking here. We used to have some friends at the call of duty wikia that helped keep our info accurate. From my Best handguns for killing zombies page, I can tell you that alot of experts look down on what we are trying to do with this wiki. Regardless, try to find whom ever you can to contribute, and it will be appreciated, especially as far as firearms info is concerned. : — [[User:Philodox|'<<— ''Philodox —>>''']] talk 06:37, December 2, 2011 (UTC) :Thanks. Alockwood1 21:56, December 2, 2011 (UTC) I think someone needs to double check the chemical weapons category. I have my doubts of the existence of something called "Icethrower" and the chemical weapon "BD166". The feathered serpent 00:09, January 8, 2012 (UTC)